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Author Topic: 2013 AGM  (Read 27172 times)

Whitham69

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2013 AGM
« on: August 19, 2013, 11:40:06 PM »
I guess with the AGM coming up in afew months we should talking about what we would like for next year.

Im happy to stand for secutary again and organise all the tracks. (Halifax not under construction and no snow please)


Off the top my head the biggest problem I see we have is filling the role for health and safety officer if everyone happy to contion as they are, pretty much a bullpoo job with no work load at all from what I see. Just filling a roll for insurance purpase's.

So I guess the main discussion the same as every year.

How many rounds would people like?
Location of rounds?
Stock bike rules?

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itsthegman

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Re: 2013 AGM
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2013, 09:42:29 AM »
Ah ha.

Well i've sufffered like most people with work not letting me come out too play so only made some sundays.

I think that 8 rounds is fine maybe 4 or 5 to count give people a chance.

I have never been too skipton but its the bi-central location for bikes with aldershot.

For me.

Skipton
Aldershot
Adur
Mendip
Cotswolds
Cotswolds
Cotswolds
Cotswolds

I've never been a fan of halifax after the time we were there and literally after the last final finished the clubbies were on the track running too get us off.

And so to stock after chitty chatting with a few people i would like too see it 17.5t blinky and G2 (transition year) about the same speeds G2 will have more rpm and 17.5t will have more torque/life lists are available from the brca for motors and blinky esc's.

Maybe we could have a meeting at the cotswold gp as most nterested parties will be there and i cant make the agm.


Just my 2p.

G.
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Fred Martin

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Re: 2013 AGM
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2013, 05:16:23 PM »
Would the 17.5 motor be fixed or adjustable timing.
We must remember that ideally the class should need no scrutineering.
I like the idea of the class as it MIGHT bring a few car drivers to bikes as they already have a radio and motor system to suit.

Fred M
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Mank

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Re: 2013 AGM
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2013, 06:51:50 PM »
If the stock class was to allow or move to a brushless system next year wouldn't it be better to use the same as specified in the Worlds & European championships?

Phil
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itsthegman

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Re: 2013 AGM
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2013, 07:30:18 PM »
Would the 17.5 motor be fixed or adjustable timing.
We must remember that ideally the class should need no scrutineering.
I like the idea of the class as it MIGHT bring a few car drivers to bikes as they already have a radio and motor system to suit.

Fred M

I did think about this and there are pros and cons you could say to people only use the hobbywing or speed passion with fixed timing (counts out any car guys) we did this at aldershot for the eco class cars but when we switched over too any 17.5t on the brca list the class just exploded.

So i would say 17.5 as per the brca list then that allows you too pick up a cheap one (i got one off the bay for 13 ) they will then weed out the ones that are unfair for us. Just visual check is it on the list yes good no bad boy.

G.










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itsthegman

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Re: 2013 AGM
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2013, 07:34:26 PM »
If the stock class was to allow or move to a brushless system next year wouldn't it be better to use the same as specified in the Worlds & European championships?

Phil

In a word 'No'. How many of us have raced at the worlds how many of us are likely to race at the worlds its different too how many of us would like to race at the worlds. Sorry to shoot you down in flames there but lets look after the domestic series first and if you want to go to the worlds do so and choose the motor and esc then.

G.







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Mank

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Re: 2013 AGM
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2013, 08:32:37 PM »
If the stock class was to allow or move to a brushless system next year wouldn't it be better to use the same as specified in the Worlds & European championships?

Phil

In a word 'No'. How many of us have raced at the worlds how many of us are likely to race at the worlds its different too how many of us would like to race at the worlds. Sorry to shoot you down in flames there but lets look after the domestic series first and if you want to go to the worlds do so and choose the motor and esc then.

G.

Hi Gerald,
No problem, it's just an idea..
As much as I agree we need to look after the domestic scene I don't see why falling in line with euro regs would be detrimental to our stock class?
The Speed Passion Cirtix speedo sell on ebay for 25-35 and the 13.5t motor goes for between 25-40 but it would mean that everyone would have the same which is surely the spirit of the stock class.
In your reply to Fred you state that once the eco class at Aldershot moved to 17.5T it "exploded" but I don't see how this is relevant us and as much as i'd like our numbers to increase I can't see any car racers moving to bikes because they already own a motor that can be bought for 13 from ebay.
It would be interesting to hear the thoughts from the Craigavon boys and what problems they've encountered,if any, moving to brushless in their stock class.

Phil
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itsthegman

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Re: 2013 AGM
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2013, 08:41:02 PM »
One last thing i will say this and its not intended to accuse insult annoy people i just think its a little kick or wakeup call.

If we dont do something and even if we can the bike section will cease too be. Its not easy takes major commitment and practice you cant just get a bike and race unlike touring cars, I remember when touring cars killed off everything else pro10 f1 everything cause they were easy plentyful and you could buy rubber tyres everywhere and it took hardly any effort to glue up.

This is not just me these are the mumblings behind the scences because i listen to people.

1. Yes i'm getting with the numbers, you know its going to be a rant.

2. Stock class 17.5t brushless i would vote for it its cheap if you want it too be. I put a post on the amcc forum wanted cheap brushless speedo and i got one 15 hobbywing xtreme stock. As per my previous post i bought a 17.5t motor off the bay 13 shipped second hand yes but works. I did buy a new dynamite through the shop where i worked 59.99 but i get a discount.

Some people will say and i'm not going to name names but, i have a perfectly good brushed speedo if you allow brushless i wont be able too race - yes you can g2 still valid transition year 2014. Its going to be expensive - yes if you want it too be but then i reckon you will spend more on roadies in a season then you will in brushless gear. Its not waterproof - no its not but then if you expected too race in the rain you would most likely thought twice about getting out of bed. I will have to buy a new motor every 5 mins - if you want to then do so (who else had bomber in their mind) or stick with one and set the bike up to get more out of it (Seriously if anyone knows how to setup a bike or has the book tell me please god soon).

3. Stock tyres again what people say too me while i wander around chatting. Maybe we should nominate a tyre for stock so people know what to get and go racing rather than turn up find out there is a new sky blue pink roadie that is the must have at 60 the pair - No. I'm not having a go at anyone who sells them buys them or makes them but my heart sinks when i go racing only to find the next must have item is mega bucks when i'm still running last years poor relations - i'm sure this scenario has cost us a body or two. Agree or disagree its your choice and if we did nominate a tyre for stock then our favourite seller would know what to bring. I know every shop keeper has had the 'oh thats not the one too have' experience.

4. Motors & Lipos. Should we not adopt the brca list on this all lipos should be hardcased nothing exotic that is not generally available. Hardcased its a safety thing is it not, your ment to charge them in the sack. Motors but this is really superbike stuff is there a modified brca list and should we be running motors from it - if you say 'but thats not what they run at the worlds' see my previous post domestic series first if you want to race at the worlds good on you have fun do well and i will enjoy listening too the tales.

5. Tyres. I dont know how much this annoys me but its does and i've had a good day at work, there was this p*nis sausage who put his feet up on the seat next too me on the bus on the way home but hey. I've got thunder tiger wheels i've got wheels with the centre machined out too make them lighter (thanks scott/steve) i've got dog poo inserts melissa's hair curlers i've got split rims pink rims lead weight lead tape the list goes on. I dont think they have made as much difference as a well setup bike (see previous if you have that book?) so for the sake of stock if nothing else we limit the choice the cost any maybe have a case of the nomintated tyre front and back maybe a second front option and the commitee can review mid season.

This is not supposed too offend or insult or undermine in anyway the people that race run supply help or contribute in any way what so ever but i like to run my bike sometimes i even try and race it i'm not that good i like too tinker with it but (its back too that book again) i dont really know what i'm doing and i think the most fun i've had was in stock when choices were simple.

Now knowing the things that i know there are going to be responses in the general areas.

1. Push off back to touring cars you mouthy opinionated individual - i can accept that but then everyone likes clarkson for his words and i'm just pointing out the elephant in the room.

2. If you want too change things go to the agm and vote - yes i will when they move the venue south of birmingham. I dont see the appeal of driving for three hours and then try too talk sense to people who dont get it - sorry. I did google AGM but it didnt help my arguement for having a meeting at the cotswolds GP.

3. If you dont like it dont do it - true i'm a floater but if i float away too something else (i do like my trains and my planes) then who will float away next then the numbers are down and down until there is just Simon !.

Logic can counter anything any arguement so if you can counter anything i have said here with validity that i cannot rebuke then you sir will be bought a pint the next time we stand at a bar together (except peter he's too young and not allowed in the bar).

Well thats it dinners ready suits is on telly and harvey always brings it. Seriously if i have offended you that what not my intention but you dont make an omelette without cracking eggs - i want to race my bike and have fun.

If all else fails Andy Carless made me do it honest guv.

G.

P.S. Now where did that tin hat go.


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ScaryFast

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Re: 2013 AGM
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2013, 08:51:24 PM »
I think it's definitely time to move the stock class into the 21st century by going brushless, however in my understanding the point of the stock class is to keep the power equal for all while keeping costs down.

As a car driver that has moved to bikes, I don't believe our rules will encourage or discourage anyone from making the change.  I moved simply because I like bikes and wanted a new challenge.

17.5 turn motors would seem a good choice but I think whatever we allow or don't allow, they should be fixed timing and blinky speedo's to keep the performance consistent
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Re: 2013 AGM
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2013, 01:53:43 PM »
As a long-time stock driver, I like the simplicity of the class and the general idea that it's not possible to buy victory. The majority of that is down to the equal motor performance, which is currently a fairly level playing field.

Dave T and I have had the same discussion on 17.5 vs. G2 already: Dave has built up a 17.5 blinky stock bike for comparison with G2, so we're hoping to test that at some point before the AGM either at a club meeting or the end-of-season GP so we'll have some facts on performance to base any decision making on.

My thoughts on Stock:

I've invested in the better tyres only as my old ones have worn out, rebuilding my old alloy wheels with progressively firmer inserts as they came along to keep them fresh, before finally moving on to Roadies about 18 months ago. Wear is proving to be good and I've only replaced the original fragile red wheel set to avoid the risk of them breaking during a race. I'd be loathe to be forced into buying any more tyres for a while now.

Peter was beating my roadie-shod bike with his PMT-shod bike earlier in the season, and I've had some stonking races with Neal this year despite him being on Peter's old PMT wheel/tyre combo until very recently, so I don't believe for stock there's a significant advantage to be had, as long as the bike is set-up to suit the tyres you're using.

I would suggest wheels/tyres in stock remain a free choice, with the recommendation for Stock-class newbies buying new that they get a set of light-weight Roadies or PMT200's with Massari inserts and be done with.

WRT motors, I personally am quite happy with the G2's but can see the attraction of brushless for some people as well.

13.5's are not suitable as a stock replacement: When we did run 13.5's a few years ago, they were quicker than the old 27t stocks and there ended up being a huge performance difference between the budget 13.5's and the then-new Turbo combo's. I couldn't/didn't want to spend over 250 on a turbo/adjustable timing set-up, so my newly bought 130 Losi combo was made obsolete in only one season - not happy! I was pleased to see the switch to the more sensible G2 motor, and back to my old faithful brushed kit which has proven to be both easier to drive and better on general wear and tear/breakages etc.

Since then we've got blinky and spec speedos and motors available at reasonable cost, with the 17.5's being a reasonably close match to the G2's when used in cars. This would mean that those us currently running brushed motors could stick with them for now if we chose to without being disadvantaged.

If we're going to try this, I'd suggest we adopt both Blinky and the older non-turbo speedos (Losi Excellorin/Novak GTB/etc) with a selection of fixed timing 17.5 motors to avoid getting into technology/cheque-book racing.

The main thing we have had in stock for the last 2-3 years is stability: we've seen at Aldershot the effect of chopping and changing rules constantly in some of the car classes, it kills the interest very quickly as it's not a level playing field and people object to having to buy several different complete lots of kit or get into a technology race, particularly if it ends up not going to be used very often.

The important thing with Brushless will be to establish a suitable motor/speedo equivalence (to prevent it becoming a technology race as it did in the early days of 13.5) so old and new can run alongside each other. The class will then naturally switch to whichever spec is deemed to be the most suitable over time, without dis-allowing or putting off anyone with old kit, brushed RTR's, no money, etc.

I also concur with Gary's comments re car drivers swapping: most of them look on at Aldershot club meetings with amusement/amazement but when offered a go refuse, claiming 'it's going to be too difficult' or 'I like to watch them but wouldn't want to race one', so I suspect we have something of a 'Marmite' class as it is anyway.
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Re: 2013 AGM
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2013, 02:11:43 PM »
Re the number of rounds:

I'd prefer not to have too many as it becomes difficult to get to them all, especially with young families and avoiding annoying the wife too much!

There's five core Bike clubs in the UK: Aldershot, Skipton, Cotswold and Southend on the mainland and CMCC in NI.

Add to that Adur and either Halifax (if we're going to attempt to get the worlds there in 2015) or a second one at Cotswold if we want seven rounds and we're done.

Personally I'd prefer 4/7 or 3-4/6 as it'll be easier to get to enough to be in with a chance in the championship. Much as I'd like to, I'm unlikely to be able to make the trip to Belfast and a busy calendar starts to cause family problems if I'm not careful. I suspect others are in the same situation, e.g. Chris D, Roger, etc. so more flexibility may encourage better attendance at the rounds people can make.
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Whitham69

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Re: 2013 AGM
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2013, 04:16:43 PM »
Stock class is always intresting this time of year.

17.5/G2    perferance make's no odd's really. it almost impossible to a new buy a brushed speedo nowadays which is why I ask the question.

I would like to get rid of stock class (Nitro as well really but it would cost a lot to make them keep up with superbikes) due to the numbers we have, Make a single class which would be run what ya brung. I would like to see this as only a couple of people are having a close race at meeting. would also make running the meeting easyer as the heats could be balanced better for marsheling. but I find a superbike to fast myself so would need a slower motor and that make me uncompetive then...

numbers of rounds I would like to increase from 8 to 9 and have 6/9 to counts.  reason for this it hard to promote a national series with only 2 tracks north of Bristol (Stafford im looking into as venue). it allows more flexibility to drops rounds. makes the Ireland trip less critical for the championship.


I would also like to change the format for sidecars, have one qually heat at the beginning of the meeting and one final before bike start there finals. reason for this is marsheling really. I don't wont to drop sidecar but make it easyer to enter and not have to run two class's all day will make things easyer.
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Jonathan Bradbury

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Re: 2013 AGM
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2013, 09:13:41 PM »
Getting told no to the gig at Silverstone does not bode well, neither does the inability to get a MX.  meet sorted.   >:( Never mind the rest.
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Whitham69

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Re: 2013 AGM
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2013, 05:31:44 AM »
neither does the inability to get a MX.  meet sorted.   >:( Never mind the rest.


There no MX guys to cover the cost of track hire for it own event or even enough intrest to be allowed to join a heat on a club day.
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Fred Martin

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Re: 2013 AGM
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2013, 08:12:35 AM »
Rich,

Have i correctly understood what you are saying?
Keep sidecars (2 runners).
Scrap Nitro (4 runners).
Scrap Stock (6 runners).

Fred M
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